Welcome to REINVENTED with Jen Eckhart! You better bring your A-game because you're about to get served as Jen goes off the court with a legendary hall-of-fame tennis coach Rick Macci. They discuss the true story behind the major motion picture "King Richard," starring Will Smith, including how he trained Venus and Serena Williams, as depicted in the movie, to become the champions they are today. They also dive into how he managed to reinvent the game of tennis by training some of the most notable, top athletes in the world: Venus and Serena Williams, Andy Roddick, Maria Sharapova, Jennifer Capriati, Mary Pierce -- and more! The seven-time Tennis Coach of the Year also shares plans for how U.S. Men's Tennis can get back in the spotlight on the world stage and ways we can challenge our fears in life both on and off the court.

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REINVENTED With Tennis Hall-Of-Fame Coach Rick Macci

JE: One of my all-time favorite quotes is from the former First Lady of the United States, Eleanor Roosevelt, who once said, “Do one thing every day that scares you.” For those who know me and for those who are just getting to know me, I live my life by that quote. We can learn big lessons as leaders, athletes, and entrepreneurs from these words. Do one thing every day that scares you because if you’re constantly living inside a bubble, you can’t change. You’re not only fighting a losing battle, but you’re also subverting your own personal growth.

Speaking of doing scary things, I did a thing. Let’s face it. I’ve done a million scary things, but this is breaking news. I picked up a tennis racket for the first time since I was nine years old. This former competitive cheerleader decided to get back out on the tennis court and make a complete fool of herself, but you know what? I am having so much fun. It’s because I’m not a quitter, and I love looking a challenge dead in the eye and giving it a wink.

My next guest tweeted, “Fear is the number one motivator in the history of the world.” This guy gets it, and he so happens to be tennis royalty. Over the last decades, he has trained and worked with the who’s who of the tennis world, everyone from Serena and Venus Williams to Andy Roddick, Maria Sharapova, Jennifer Capriati, Mary Pierce and Jen Eckhart. I’m kidding about that last name. He’s a seven-time USPTA Coach of the Year. He was the youngest ever to be inducted into the US Tennis Hall of Fame. He’s also a full-time dad and can now add a major motion picture star to his resume with the release of the King Richard movie. Rick Macci, welcome to the show.

RM: I’m glad to be here. It’s going to be a lot of fun.

JE: How did you like that introduction, including my name and your impressive roster of tennis stars?

RM: Once I see you hit a few, I’ll see if you have potential, and we’ll go from there.

JE: That’s awesome. Your academy’s located in Boca Raton, if I recall correctly.

RM: It’s in Boca Raton, and if you’re ever in Florida, it’s open to everybody 365 days a year.

JE: I am in Miami, Florida, born and raised. My parents live in the Jupiter Palm Beach area, so I’m going to take you up on that, Rick Macci.

RM: Come on down. It would be a lot of fun.

JE: Rick, it is such an honor to have you on the show because, in a way, you, my friend, have reinvented the game of tennis by training some of the most notable top athletes in the world. You did throw out the rule book in that you were the only tennis coach willing to take a risk and a chance on a poor Black family in 1991 in order to help get Venus and Serena Williams the best training they needed to become the champions that they are now.

I watched the King Richard movie, and I have to tell you, I cried. King Richard depicts the upbringing of tennis legends Venus and Serena Williams and the determination of their father, Richard, who’s portrayed by Will Smith. Rick Macci, my guest here, is the girl’s coach. He’s portrayed by Jon Bernthal. Rick, I have to ask. As somebody who actually lived the story as seen now on the big screen, you played such a critical role in making these athletes who they are now. What did you overall think of the film?

RM: The film was a masterpiece, and it’s going to stand the test of time. It’s so spot on. Almost everything is right there. I was there every day for 4 years, 6 hours a day. Richard was my best friend, and Venus and Serena were like my own daughters. That doesn’t sound like a lot of time but take that time 365. We were family. I was on a mission. When I believe in something, it sounds like a big risk.

When you see the movie, especially the financial part, I’m not a billion-dollar corporation, but I knew what I could do putting Humpty Dumpty together. I saw something inside these two little girls. Not only could they possibly be number one in the world, and they lived in the same house. I thought I could help transcend the game. It wasn’t as risky. If you’re a coach and love challenges, it was the best decision I ever made.

If you can put Humpty Dumpty together, then you take the risk.

JE: You invested not only your time on the court coaching these two incredible women at your academy in Florida, but as you said, you invested your own money for the family to get to Florida, including purchasing their RV in Compton so that they could drive cross country. You provided them with a home, car and much more when they got to Florida. You even provided a salary for Richard Williams. This is unheard of for any tennis coach to do. What inspired you to do all of that?

RM: I get asked that hundreds of times through email, text, and in person. It was one of those things when I went out to Compton and met with the family. It was like yesterday. When they came to the hotel room, Venus was on one leg, and Serena was on the other. The arms were around Richard, and they were hugging and kissing.

Richard started asking me all kinds of questions. I thought I was in a deposition. He was grilling me, but I respected it because if he was going to let someone in his circle, he wanted to know that it was going to be bigger than tennis because he already knew what I did with Capriati. She was the youngest ever to win the eighteens as a twelve-year-old. It’s a record that still stands the day from 1988.

He already knew the tennis part, but to be a role model and a father figure, he was taking the temperature. I immediately bonded with Richard. Even though he was a little different, we were cut from the same cloth because I knew he would be cutting edge. I knew that he’d think out of the box. He wasn’t one of these junior parents that were going to play all these tournaments.

The next day he said, “We’re picking you up at 7:00, and we’re going to go to East Compton Hills Country Club.” The next day they picked me up at 7:00 in that little bus you saw in the movie, the red and white bus that’s wobbling with a prince logo on the front. I get in the front seat, sit there, and get harpooned in the buttock by a spring. I looked in the back. There is Venus and Serena, and there is four months’ worth of McDonald’s wrappers. There are balls. There are ball hoppers. There are dirty clothes. It was like a movie because I was at a five-star resort, Grenelefe Golf & Tennis Resort, as the director and this was crazy. Let alone, I never got on a plane, Jen, to see someone. They either came to the academy, or I saw them at a junior tournament.

JE: It showed you a different vantage point of how they were living and their sheer determination to make this happen for them.

RM: We were going to East Compton Hills Country Club, and about 10 minutes into the ride, I was looking around. I’m going, “This is a strange place for a country club.” We pull up to this park. There are twenty guys playing basketball. They’re drinking and smoking, and guys are laying on the ground. We got off the bus, and the basketball court parted like the Red Sea. They go, “King Richard.”

About three months earlier, the New York Times did a story on Venus because she won 60 matches in the 10 and under. They knew who they were from a little publicity. They then go, “Meek, Serena Jameka Williams.” They go, “Meek and VW.” We go across the court. It parts like the Red Sea, and Richard goes, “He’s okay. He’s with us.” I stood out.

JE: “He’s ours. Don’t mind us.”

RM: I had a box of Wilson Balls shipped there. Richard goes, “Rick, we don’t use new balls. We want old balls. We want them digging. We want them bending.” I go, “I get it. It’s a little different.” We went onto the court, and Richard had a cart next to the post.

JE: Was it an actual grocery cart?

RM: You got it. It was like in the movie. There are about seven chains wrapped around it. It took him twenty minutes to get the chains off. He goes, “Rick, I got to secure it. It won’t be here in the morning.” I’m sitting here going, “This is crazy.” Remember, I had Capriati, and she was poetry in motion. Her knees were bent in the parking lot. Her rocker was back, low center of gravity and great fundamentals from the late great Jimmy Evert, Chris’ dad.

My reference point is gold, and now I’m looking at this thing and going, “This is crazy stuff.” We started hitting balls, me and Serena. I was doing drills at first. I didn’t think they were any better or worse. Arms, hair, beads flying off their head and tennis balls going everywhere. I’m going, “What in God’s name am I doing in Compton, California?” I said, “This is not anything special.” This is a great lesson for any parent or coach or even Rick Macci. You don’t judge a book by its cover. The cover could be amazing, and the book bad. The cover is bad, and the book is amazing.

We started competing, and it blew my socks off. When I saw them, we kept scoring like the fans were in the stand. The way they ran and the burning desire was like rage in these two little kids. There was something, and I never saw two little kids try so hard. It blew me away. The strokes were still shaky, but everything got cleaned up a little bit. I went to Richard and said, “Come here. I’m going to tell you something right now. You got the next female Michael Jordan on your hands.”

JE: He responded, “I got me the next two.”

RM: That’s in the movie, and that’s all true. Venus walks out the gate on her hands for 5 feet and backward part wheels. I said, “These two girls can transcend the sport.” I’m projecting where this can be in six years. They decide to pick me as a coach. If they wanted me to do it, I was going to do anything to make it happen because I saw something I’d never seen in my life in two little kids. To this day, I’ve had a lot of people win national titles and be number one. They checked all the boxes, but no one checked them like Venus and Serena. They even created a few more.

JE: I love that the movie depicted their humble beginnings. That’s so important. They weren’t champions overnight. It shows you the struggle. As you said, it took Richard twenty minutes just to unravel the chains from the grocery cart that was holding all of their used tennis balls, and you brought new Wilson balls for them to use. There are so many life lessons that are jam-packed into this film. Thank you for giving us some color.

You lived this story. It’s one thing to see it in the Hollywood big motion picture, but to be talking to the man who was their nitty-gritty with them amid all of this is something else. As a journalist, one of my biggest takeaways was the scene in the film where fourteen-year-old young Venus Williams was sitting down for an interview with a reporter ahead of a big junior tennis match against Sánchez Vicario.

The reporter was a little relentless. He pushed Venus about her ability to win the match and she responded that she believed she could. She said, “I know I can beat her. I’m very confident,” but the reporter almost in a way mocked her confidence and said, “How? Why are you so confident? You haven’t played a match in nearly three years.” Richard, Venus’ dad, swooped in to interrupt the interview, which happened on national TV back in 1994, defending his daughter, saying, “Pal, she answered your question with a lot of confidence. Leave it alone. You’re dealing with a little kid here.” I would love to know, Rick, what did you make of that powerful scene?

RM: I was in the room. I was right there with Richard when the interview was being done. The guy interviewing Venus probably never has been in that situation in his whole life because, looking back now, Venus and Serena are wired very differently than a lot of people. He wasn’t around greatness or pure confidence, especially at a young age. When Venus said, “I know I can,” he goes, “Are you sure?” She says it again, and then Richard freaks out.

I’m telling everybody that she’ll be better than Capriati. She’ll be number one in the world. Her little sister might be better. There’s all this publicity going on. When Richard interrupted like that, I’m going, “This is crazy,” but that was Richard, and he was right. What was crazy was the next day, they didn’t cut any of it out. They showed it live on TV with Richard interrupting. I had to defend Richard a lot because he would say crazy things, but it didn’t matter because he treated these girls the way he acted with them and the mom too. She needs a lot of credit, but I saw that.

No matter what he did, that trumped everything because he brought their books even to the court. If it rained, go to Rick’s office every single night, happy, mad, sad, a good day or a bad day. They would always say, “Rick, thank you very much.” None of this is in the movie. They’d go home at night, 10 and 11 years old. After dinner, he puts up a tripod. He’s asking them questions like you are me. He’s preparing them life lessons for the day to come because it’s going to be like me against the world, Muhammad Ali stuff.

He’s telling them how to answer the question without answering the question and with a smile on their face and a hug and a kiss because they’re both very bright. They both handle the media, and they flip it around and put them in their pocket. These are the things that I saw Richard do, and it was bigger than tennis. When he did this, it didn’t surprise me. It freaked me out, but it didn’t matter because that was one of 100 stories like that because he was the best father. I saw it every day that I’ve ever been around.

The things Richard Williams did for his children are so much bigger than tennis.

JE: The film does an excellent job of portraying that. Will Smith did a fantastic job portraying Richard. Everyone needs hype people in their lives. We all need people who not only believe in us but also who motivate us, people who remind us of our potential and encourage us to reach for it. One of the biggest takeaways of the film and real-life story for me is you have to believe in yourself. The world is going to tell you, “You can’t.” The world is going to tell you, “You’re not good enough.” That’s where someone like you or Richard comes in. What are some lessons you have instilled in some of your players who feel down on their luck and not good enough?

RM: That, to anybody, is the easiest thing to get distracted by what you hear, what you read, your friends and your influences, and always understanding when you look in the mirror, that’s the ultimate test. You want to have those conversations a lot. Like what you eat, you want to keep empowering yourself with positivity. The environment that I created for Meek and VW was incredible. They were willed to be number one. Even though they had the goods to probably be there athletically eventually anyways, it was so positive and all about the big picture.

It was never about the moment. It was much always bigger, but it takes a special mom and dad to buy into that. I do that with all the kids. When I give a lesson, the staple is not biomechanics, technical, or footwork. The mental part is an entrée, a smorgasbord of everything. It’s not the people I’ve had win grand slams or be number one or the over 300 people that have won nationals or the award. It’s the people that do their homework better.

I got them off medication, or they treat other people better, or they come back in life and how I changed their work ethic. I didn’t try to do any of this, but being on a tennis court, was my platform. The lessons that other people picked up through my career, to me, are more powerful. I train the kid and the parent in the art of communication, how to connect the dots, and how to take the temperature. There’s an art to that. For putting up with Richard for four years, I should be in the hall of fame. I saw him not so long ago. We were laughing and crying. The stories are epic, and it’s come full circle.

JE: You guys are still best friends to this day. Is that correct?

RM: Absolutely. I saw him, and he’s in great health, no matter what everybody says. His memory is like a steel trap. I had the guy crying and laughing. A lot of the stories everybody forgets, but I still got the steel trap here. We went back down memory lane, and it was awesome. To all the other players, they can do it. You got to know how to say it, when to say it, when to send the right emoji, when to text them, when to back off, when to kick them in the butt and when to hug. There’s an art to this. I’ve been trying to put Humpy Dumpy together since age 22. I’ve been on a tennis court probably more than anybody in the world, and I still teach 50 hours a week. At the end of the day, when people have confidence and get to the big sea, they can do anything in their life.

At the end of the day, when people have confidence, they can do anything in their life.

JE: Speaking of having confidence, rejection and losing are also a big part of winning, which the film also portrays. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve fallen down or been rejected in life, but my failures have always rerouted me to something bigger and better, or there’s always been a lesson at the other end. In the film and real life, Richard does not give up after being rejected many times. Venus won a whole bunch of games but lost in the final match in the movie. She left feeling super discouraged until she walked out to cheering crowds who were so excited to see her win to succeed in life. In all your years of coaching, I am curious about what makes a player coachable.

RM: Number one, they got to look at the bigger picture. Especially with kids, it’s called junior development, not the junior final destination. It’s not where you start, it’s where you finish. You got to build something. I like buying the ingredients, putting it in the oven, baking it and putting the icing on it. If I’m still with them on tour, which is tough because I got a lot of other things with my business, that’s what it’s all about. The cards you’re dealt at a young age are with you forever. It’s important.

JE: I love how what you call her VW. Is that what you call her?

RM: I call Serena at the after party. She goes, “Other than my dad, you’re the only one that called Meek because I’m Serena Jameka Williams.” My point is, for three and a half years, they come to Rick Macci Academy. I’m with them 4 or 5 hours a day, 6 days a week. They’re hibernating at Rick Macci Academy, getting their butt beat every day, never winning. Richard got it, but you got to understand. If people don’t win a lot, the parents are going somewhere else, like history, but this is why we clicked. This is about the future.

Venus never wins a match for three and a half years, and then she’s forced to term pro because they changed the age eligibility rule. We had to do that even though the movie spins it differently. She walks off the street, never playing a match for three and a half years, hibernating at Rick Macci Tennis Academy and losing. She lost all the time. I get her a wild card. She walks off and beats 57 in the world who’s been in the Top 20, NCAA champion, Shaun Stafford. She wins that match. She goes to the press conference. She smiled and laughed. She had a lot of fun. It was great. She flipped it around.

JE: She defied the odds.

RM: People wanted to put the knife in her. They didn’t like Richard. She was legendary, and she never did anything. It was so crazy. In the next match, she had to play Sanchez, and she would’ve won. She’s up 6-3, 3-1. The bathroom break was real. Venus checked out. She’s a fourteen-year-old, but right then and there, the people had a brain. They said, “I never seen a kid run, hit, and serve like that and go for the jugular.” This little girl is going to be number one in the world, and her little sister might be better. You can’t make it up.

JE: She did prove that there’s no real formula or one size fits all cookie cutter way to become successful. When I hear a story like that, I think of somebody like me, who I was told my whole life, “You can never work at the national network of your dreams. You have to go local affiliate to local affiliate and start small and work your way, going through the motions, moving around from market to market, different city here, and different city there.”

When I graduated from college at the University of Florida, when I got the call that I was hired at a national network in New York City, I was on the first flight up here, Rick. I was working at a national level in my early twenties. I love hearing things like that because people get so stuck in their ways like, “No. This is the way to do it. You have to do it this way,” and they throw the rule book out the window.

RM: Not only threw the rule book but the tournaments, which I don’t recommend. You got to understand, Jen. They were brutal competitors. They’d be first to get wine for water.

JE: You said they would step over broken glass and back again just to hit a ball.

RM: I saw it. I believed in me, Richard, and the girls. Whether it’s 4 years or 8 years, it didn’t matter. It was going to happen. I was going to will it to happen. What you said is key. When people say you can’t or you get rejected, you got to look at that as a challenge. You almost have to look as a compliment in a way because it’s going to open up another door, or you can feel sorry for yourself, freak out and do what everybody else does, 98% of the world.

The more you fail, you’re going to succeed. You can go through the best shooters or the best quarterback. A-Rod got struck out a lot and hit a mile in the parking lot. You’re going to find it, but the wiring has to be different. I got to tell people it is what it isn’t. It’s the exact opposite, and you got to flip it in your mind. You can’t feel sorry for yourself at the pity party. You have to look at it because what people do when they get stuck is go the other way.

A perfect example is myself. My dad died when I was ten. I picked up a tennis racket at twelve years old in the small town of Greenville, Ohio. I played all sports and fell in love with hitting the ball against the wall. It came back to me, so I liked that. I had a good practice partner. By age eighteen, I was number one in Ohio Valley without a lesson. I could go on and on, but here we are this time later. I teach more lessons than anybody in the United States, and I never had a lesson.

At the end of the day, some people get an opportunity, and some people don’t. It might help you, but it also can hurt you. When you have to struggle a little bit, and it’s tougher, and it’s not rainbow, lollipop and sunshine, it’s better. That’s what I love about Richard. Whether it be the old balls or putting the music up real loud or Venus tosses a ball, and he screams at her. I love the guy because that’s the real world. I love the whole family.

JE: King Richard gets into this interesting place in youth sports with burnout and how early is too early to start someone on a superstar path. In the movie, it’s a point of contention between you and Richard about when to turn Venus and Serena pro. I’m sure you know more than anyone that fame and money can change anyone. How have you, Rick Macci, been able to stay on top as player styles and attitudes change?

RM: I knew with Venus and Serena, they would not change. Nothing’s going to change them. That wiring was baked in extra crispy from birth all the way to the day they met me, or I wouldn’t have dove in headfirst with the big financial commitment and all the sweat equity. Aside from Venus and Serena, if you’re not changing, someone’s going to change you. You got to change with the equipment, the players, and the athlete, and you got to adapt your style because kids communicate and listen differently. If you’re teaching the same way you did 25 years ago, not just the technical part, but how to communicate, educate, and motivate, if you’re not changing, it won’t happen. That’s one of the things about my career.

JE: We’d say if you’re not reinventing.

RM: That’s right. You have to do that. There’s nothing about modifying or turning it up a notch because I always tell people, “If you’re not getting ahead, you’re getting behind. If you’re not winning, you’re losing.” You got to look at it like that, and that’s the way I’ve always looked at it, even before I came on to talk to you. I learned a lot from the three lessons I had. I learn every day from every student and every situation. I’m trying to get better. That’s what I try to help other coaches with because when they hear it from Rick Macci, hopefully, it will percolate in their heads, “I got to step up my game,” because if not, someone’s ready to take your place.

JE: This is a billion-dollar question here. As someone who has coached everyone from Serena and Venus Williams to Andy Roddick, Sharapova, and Capriati, who is your favorite player or players to work with and why? Are you able to answer that question? I know it’s a tough one, but people are genuinely curious.

RM: Of all the questions you’ve asked me, it’s the easiest one. It’s whoever is on the other side of the net that hour, that minute or that second. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. That has come across my teaching ever since I started. When you can make people feel like that, you’re going to extract greatness, and that’s what I do. I try to maximize your ability. To sit here and say, “This one, this one, this one,” I’ve never been like that.

You can’t fool children. You can’t fool kids. They’re so impressionable. You can empower people to think they can do so much, but you got to have a blend. You can’t say everything is amazing, but you got to know when to dig in and back off, but that’s how I feel. That’s my favorite students. It’s whoever is going to be on the court with me after you.

JE: Taking you up on your promise, when I come down to Boca, and I’m on the other side of the net, it means I am going to be Rick Macci’s favorite player at that moment. I love it. I’ll take it. You have hundreds of stories with Venus and Serena. You’re on the record saying that Serena was quite the prankster on the court. Is there a funny story you can share with my readers that may not be as well known? I recall reading something about a Green Day shirt.

RM: I’ll tell the Green Day story, but there are hundreds. I got two for Serena just to show you how rough and tough she was. We had a sand pit. There were 40 kids in the sand pit, and they were playing tag. You got a juke, bop, weave, shake, bake, rattle and roll. You’re out there playing tag. Venus and Serena get in there for the first time, and Serena’s going to tag someone. She tagged someone with a closed fist, and I go, “Meek, you play tag with a fist open.” She was such a little pitbull and such a feisty little one. She played tag with her fist closed. We talked about that at the after-party, and she’s hugging, laughing and going crazy.

JE: She’s like, “I still do to this day.”

RM: Yes, but she does it with a racket. My favorite story with Serena is one day, it’s the middle of July. It’s at 100 degrees in Florida. I’m on the court with Serena, and Venus is next because they are always side by side. It was 2:00, and she was standing there in the corner. She wasn’t moving. I said, “Meek, you got to move your feet.” She had a little attitude, but I liked the attitude. “Why?” I go, “What do you mean why? You told me you want to be number one.” She goes, “I will be number one.”

She has that eye, and I go, “How are you going to be number one if you don’t move your feet?” She goes, “Rick, I’m really hungry. I want Scott to go to the snack machine. I want some hot curly fries, a Snickers bar and a Pepsi. Also, on the way to work on Linton Boulevard, daddy drove by a stand and they were selling Green Day t-shirts. If you could get me one of those.”

“Tell Scott, get me the curly fries, the Pepsi, the Snickers bar, and on the way, bring the Green Day t-shirt. Do you see that tall skinny girl over there?” Venus is real tall and all arms and legs go, “I’ll make her look slower than molasses.” I had Scott get curly fries, Pepsi and the Snickers bar. The next day, he’s going to bring the shirt. Serena gets her snack. She takes a fifteen-minute break. For one hour, she’s popping the popcorn with extra butter. Sweat is coming off this little kid like Niagara Falls for one hour.

She’s going 100 miles an hour, hitting the cross board and down the line. It got to be 15 after 3, and she turned around at me because I was over now with Venus. She goes, “Rick, you better have that Green Day t-shirt here in the morning.” This was an eleven-year-old. You can see that fiber, “I don’t want a marshmallow. I want a tough cookie.” This little girl was a little pitbull, but that’s probably my favorite story. When I told her that, she remembered it. She was laughing, and it was great.

JE: It’s that little diva complex, but that’s what makes her a real winner. What a shout-out to the band Green Day, which is a cute story.

RM: Here’s another one for parents real quick. As you see in the movie, they never played junior tournaments, but at 12 and 13, we got invited to play an exhibition at Hilton Head, South Carolina, at the Family Circle Cup. Here’s Richard. We’re not playing junior tournaments. We don’t want the hamburger, but we’ll go for the filet mignon. We go there, and there are 5,000 people.

They’re going to play doubles and exhibition before the main event against two people you’ve heard of, Billie Jean King and Rosie Casals. They’re playing this doubles match, and Venus and Serena are standing closer to the service line than the baseline to return serve because they took the ball so early. They’re sitting there going, “Should we tell them where to stand?” That’s where they were trained.

They played, and it was amazing. They’re hitting balls at Billie Jean, trying to kill it. They didn’t know how to play doubles, but they knew how to fight. These kids were like two little warriors out there, and everybody was freaking out about what they saw even though they were raw, but here’s the moral of the story. For anybody reading this, we get in the van. Remember, they just played the two greatest doubles players in the history of women’s tennis.

We get in the van to go to the airport. Richard is driving, and Brandy’s in the front seat. Serena’s next to me, and VW is in the back. All of a sudden, I hear, “Venus, how did you play today?” She goes, “I played very good. Thank you.” “How are your volleys?” “My volleys were amazing. Thank you.” “How about your ground stroke?” “My ground strokes were incredible.” I’m going, “Wait a minute. There’s Richard, there’s Oracene, there’s Meek,” and I turn around, and she’s talking to a doll. The moral of this story for any parent, which Richard and I knew, is that kids first and tennis players second.

Richard Williams always knew his kids were kids first, tennis players second.

JE: Speaking of which, in Richard’s memoir, Black and White: The Way I See It, he writes, in the beginning, “I decided that if people came up to me later on and told me that my daughters were great tennis players, I had failed. Success would be if they came up to me and said my daughters were great people.”

RM: That’s Richard. I know it’s easy to say, and it’s after the fact because they’re iconic, and you’re never going to see what happened. Two kids living in the same house, sharing the same bed, one in the world and the way they did it, that’s going to be hard to duplicate. It was all about life lessons. Even when I said she was going to play the Bank of the West Classic, and it’s in the movie, I was ready to turn the volume up, more hitting partners and put my foot on the gas because I didn’t know what he was going to do. He could’ve freaked out. The next day, he doesn’t show up for practice. He took the kids to Disney World for a week just because he probably wanted to take a deep breath because now he had made the decision, “VW is going to have to go out there, and we’ll see how good she is.”

JE: One thing your character says in the movie, and you can correct me on how much is fact versus fiction, but you showed up here, and the first thing you did is you pulled them out of Juniors. Now, you pulled them out of practice. You took them to Disney. You do it constantly for music lessons, homework, or even church. Will Smith, his character as Richard, says, “They got to get straight As or else they can’t play tennis. You knew that. I told you that. That’s my rule.” There’s even a scene where young Venus Williams turns down a $3 million deal. You say to Richard, “Screw your effing plan. You don’t know what you’re doing.” How much of that was really true? Were you oftentimes frustrated by Richard’s parenting style?

RM: First off, I never get frustrated. I learn and get better. I have more patience than anybody. It might have looked in the movie I got frustrated because, like anything, you’re going to have ups and downs, but you get better from every situation. I never got frustrated, and that is very much true of what you said in the beginning about straight As and all this other stuff. That was pretty much the template, but you got to understand. By the way I responded to everything, deep down inside, I wanted to practice more. I wanted to work harder.

I was doing that not for Rick Macci or Richard Williams. I was doing that for VW and Meek. I was doing it for the girls because I was on a mission. A lot of guys would say, “That’s great. Take a week off. Go to the beach.” Most guys want to take a deep breath and do something else. I wanted to turn it up. Deep down inside, he knew how I was wired about wanting to work and we got to get better every day.

The thing with the Nike deal, it was like that. One thing that is true was she did play that pro event, and I did get her to play the pro event. The rest is history with the deal that they end up getting. Almost everything in there is true, but there have been people who come at Richard with deals, but I didn’t respond like that because, at the end of the day, that’s his decision to accept it or not. It wasn’t like that.

JE: I love it in the movie when they reject the deal, and they say, “Come on, we’re going to dinner. Rick, come on. You’re paying the dinner tab.” Was that true?

RM: That’s true. Richard and I were best friends. It’s different. We weren’t just friends.

JE: You weren’t just the girl’s tennis coach. You were so much more than that.

RM: It was me and him against the world, Jen. It was a whole different deal. Besides, I would do anything for the kids. It’s a whole different level when you’re that deep into something. It’s not like on the fringe. This is how we would joke around. We would joke around all the time. When he rejects the deal, he says, “Rick, come to dinner. We’re going to a seafood buffet. You might as well be paying for it,” or whatever. That’s what he would say. We would joke all the time.

JE: With you guys, it’s like short-term pain and long-term gain. You were looking at the long-term picture here.

RM: With that being said, the whole world that sees this, especially the tennis world, they know it didn’t go from Compton to Center Court, that four years at Rick Macci and how important that is in a child’s life. Forget the mental part, which is big, just technically putting Humpty Dumpty together and being on that commitment but then the financial part. Everybody has to understand patience and the art of coaching.

As I said, Richard’s very stubborn and set in his ways. You could see that in the movie, but when I handled him the right way, we all won. If I would’ve reacted to everything, it would’ve lasted one day. I probably would’ve left Compton and said, “I don’t want to do it,” but I knew what I was getting into and like anything in life, you got to look at it as a challenge. When you take a deep breath, don’t react to everything and count to 100, good things can happen.

JE: Not every action requires a reaction. That’s what makes you the coach you are now. That’s why you coach the big dogs. I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask this. Parting ways from the movie for a second, there have been some feelings of hopelessness, and I guess you could say frustration surrounding US men’s tennis as of late.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that there are fourteen men in the Top 100. The most since 1996 but none in the Top 20. The US doesn’t have any truly elite players now, but it does have youth. When I think of that, I’m like, “That’s where Rick Macci comes in. He’s building the future of tennis.” In watching the US Open this 2022, it also hinted at better days ahead. How can American tennis get back in the spotlight?

RM: It’s going to be a slippery slope. Someone asked me that. I’ve been asked this a lot. Here’s what’s happened. The sport is so global, and the best athletes go into tennis from other countries outside the United States. There are not a lot of options. The other countries get the people who have better fast twitch muscles, are mentally strong, have different households and have a great genetic base.

Those are the athletes that you see in Djokovic. Medvedev, Murray, and Rafa. We don’t think about it. The two best players, the last time I checked, whether it’s Isner and Reilly Opelka. One is 7 feet tall, and the other is 6’11”. They should be shooting layups and jump shots in the NBA. They’re there because they’re different. They have a monster serve. They still got good attributes, but they’re a little different. Where’s everybody at? All these players are very good, but great is rare air. Great is special preternity.

To get there, like anything in life, and to stay there and be consistent is just another level. I have the formula. I’ve talked to USPTA. I don’t have magic, but it seems. If I had LeBron James at ten years old, there’s no doubt I could have got him number one in the world because he checked all these boxes that on a rainy day or when you’re nervous, he can run and fight and compete. It makes it easier when you have that elite athlete. What you do is this. You get the best kids. When they’re 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10, you try to find needles in the haystack. You don’t just throw it out there.

The fact that we have so many men in the top hundred, the country’s enormous. We should have 40. The bar’s been pushed back, and now we got that many. That’s a great accomplishment. The last guy I coach, Andy Roddick, is the last guy to win a grand slam. What I’m saying is this. You find the best athlete where their parents did something in the Olympics or high-level college, NBA, NFL, or Major League Baseball, and you got to fund it. You got to go all in and hedge your bet. It’s not going to all hit. You’re going to cover so many bases where you’re going to have 4 or 5 kids eventually that will be in the top 10 players because they can already do a lot of things that you just can’t change.

You just can’t change if someone has limited mobility or they’re bad technically. I’m not saying cloning. You get a Federer forehand and Djokovic backhand. You move like Djokovic on the court and have a mind like Rafa. You can put them in these environments, but you got to go in and do it this way. Let’s face it. Whatever’s been going on, it hasn’t worked. We can sit here and come up with excuses. I would love a shot at doing something like this. When you evaluate talent, everything in life is in the eye of the beholder.

When you evaluate talent or anything in life, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Who’s evaluating the talent? I tell people all the time, “What you may see might be different than Rick Macci.” It’s a whole different thing when people evaluate talent. No one’s done this probably more than myself, because I see it through a different lens. You’re not always going to be right, but you’ll be right more than anybody. It is a problem. CORTA might have something going that’s coming up. They might be able to grab a couple. Some of these other guys might grab a slam, but to stay there and be there for a long time, we got to have a whole different athlete train them from a young age.

JE: Speaking of youth and looking ahead to the future of tennis, you are inspiring young boys and girls across the country to pursue their dreams, such as the Miami Cinderella’s Group with the Boys and Girls Club. In fact, in early November 2022, you hosted an instructional event with Miami nonprofit Saving Our Daughters in Boca, Florida. You gave tennis instruction to a group of girl tennis players and insights into coaching two of the greatest female athletes of all time who better than Rick Macci himself. I am curious. What is the most rewarding part about transforming young lives through the game of tennis?

RM: Every day, it’s not what you can do for yourself. If you do more for others, you’re indirectly going to benefit yourself. That whole situation, at the end of a long day, was so much fun because I saw this smile on these girls' faces. They were nervous. As you know, I’m just one of the guys. I’m so down to earth and so genuine about everything. I got them to work hard. When you work hard, you’re going to work harder.

I could tell that I changed their life and made their day, like when they got an academy t-shirt, or they got a book from me. That’s the best feeling in the world. It’s not someone winning a national title. That’s a game-changer. There is so much nonsense out there, especially in this world nowadays. It’s brutal. To have someone, me being able to talk to them, is so rewarding. I like doing those things because that’s the best feeling in the world.

JE: I call that sending the elevator back down.

RM: I love it. We’re going to do it again and again. I just saw the difference in the kids’ faces. And the best thing was this. When we got done after I’ve taught ten hours and did another two with them, it’s like, “We don’t want to go home.” I’m sitting here going, “I got to go home and hang out with my cat, eat, and get up at 5:00 in the morning. I got to hang out.” They wanted me to get on the bus with them and go to Miami. It was a game-changer.

JE: You see the impact you’re having on children’s lives. It’s incredible. The King Richard film in and of itself has reinvigorated the spirit of people in terms of playing tennis. I immediately wanted to pick up a racket and go out onto the tennis court, and hopefully, it has that ripple effect across the country.

RM: It will. It’s something for everybody, like inspiration, dedication, motivation, and perspiration. It’s not a highlight reel of V and Meek hitting the ball. It’s more than that. It shows you there’s no wrong or right way. There might be a better way. Maybe it’s the way for them. It’s not for everybody. If you can’t get something out of that, if you didn’t laugh, have a tear in your eye, or didn’t feel inspired, you don’t have a pulse. The movie is epic. It’s a masterpiece. It’s going to go down as one of the best sports movies ever, and it’s going to stand the test of time.

JE: It’s going to be a real Oscar contender, I hope.

RM: For sure. The best compliment is a lot of people who watched it once have seen it twice. That’s the best compliment ever. They go back because there’s so much stuff in there to get out off. It’s incredible.

JE: Rick, as we wrap up here, at that age, you’re still at the tennis court. You’re giving lessons every day. You’ve helped five players reach the world's number-one ranking and coached grand slam tournament winners since 1985. At that age, you’re still putting in 50-hour work week with private lessons at the Rick Macci Tennis Academy in Boca, Florida. You wake up at 3:30 AM every single morning. That’s insane and crazy to me. I have to know. Why do you wake up that early? What keeps you motivated to do that every single day?

RM: A lot of people ask me that too. Everything in life is a habit. There are good and bad habits. You become a creature of habit. I’ve done it for many years. I don’t even have an alarm clock. Once I get up, I’m just ready to go. I’ve always been that way. If you love what you do, helping others, and have passion, it’s not work. If it’s 100 degrees out there, it’s not that hot to me. I’ve been outside for too long that I’ve been like a lizard. I’m bulletproof to that. I get up, eat something, and run a half mile every. Also, I run a business. I have a lot of other stuff. I email and text everybody. I got students. It’s not just what I do on the court and the engine in the business.

People are calling me now and saying, “Is this really Rick Macci on the phone?” I go, “Bang,” and they go, “It is you.” I’m a people person. I get up that early. I’m the first one to work. I open up the work. What’s crazy is this is Crown Jewel Palm Beach County. I’ve had some amazing relationship with Palm Beach County. It’s like Disneyland and Candyland. The place is incredible. A lot of pros play there. You can run a court for $5, and you might have Sofia Kenin or Francis Tiafoe. There’s a tournament every weekend. I open up the park every morning. At this age, in my resume, I’m a park ranger now. I’m officially a park ranger. I like to be first and be ready, so you don’t have to get ready.

JE: As Ricky Bobby says, if you’re not first, you’re last. I love it. That’s the kind of attitude that makes you a winner in life. One of the main reasons I decided to start this show is because it’s giving me a unique opportunity to do something new and exciting, which is combining my journalism background and passion for storytelling.

My hope is for people who read this episode to walk away with a renewed belief that they, too, can achieve and reinvent themselves no matter the cost and circumstance. I believe that your story and impact in training some of the most successful athletes in the world is reigniting the movement to challenge ourselves and our fears both on and off the court. Thank you, Rick, for taking time off the tennis court and coming here.

RM: It was awesome. I enjoyed it, and I will do it again.

JE: Thanks so much. To all of my audience, if you haven’t seen King Richard, see and do it. I promise you will not regret it. I believe it will be an Oscar contender, I hope, this 2022. You will be inspired, so please find a way to watch it. As for this show, be sure to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you read, Spotify, Apple, or YouTube. You name it, it’s there. That was Rick Macci. Thank you for reading.

Important Links

Rick Macci
Black and White: The Way I See It
Spotify – REINVENTED with Jen Eckhart
Apple – REINVENTED with Jen Eckhart
YouTube – Jennifer Eckhart
@JenniferEckhart – Instagram
@JenniferEckhart – Twitter

About Rick Macci

Rick’s experience over the past 40 years in molding a player is unmatched by any teacher in the world. As a USPTA Master Professional, Rick trains other tennis pros and coaches how to teach, motivate and communicate with their students to “deliver the goods”. Experts agree that Rick’s insight to explaining and presenting the psychological triggers of an athlete is a gift that very few coaches’ possess and can deliver.