Welcome to Reinvented with Jen Eckhart! In this episode, Jen speaks with independent rapper, host of “Real Talk with Zuby” podcast, and author of “Strong Advice: Zuby’s Guide to Fitness for Everybody," Zuby Udezue. They discuss how Zuby has reinvented himself while marching to the beat of his own drum, his experience living in both the U.K. and Saudi Arabia, studying computer science at Oxford University, releasing his first rap album at the age of nineteen, and his advice to anyone who wants a fresh start at fitness and living a healthier life.
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REINVENTED With Rapper, Author & Fitness Coach Zuby Udezue
JE: I'm excited to welcome somebody on the show who might make a couple of people's heads explode. He's an independent rapper, host of the Real Talk with Zuby podcast, and author of Strong Advice: Zuby’s Guide to Fitness for Everybody, but he's so much more than that. He's a true individualist in every sense of the word. He marches to the beat of his own drum quite literally, and he's a free-thinker, which is something rare. Zuby, welcome to the show.
ZU: What's up, Jen? I appreciate the introduction.
JE: Everything I said is true. You are an individualist and a free-thinker. I wanted to invite you on the show because you do fit the theme of reinvention so well. For those who aren't familiar with you and your profile, you have quite an eclectic resume. Aside from being a rapper, an author, a podcast host, and a fitness coach, you're also an Oxford University graduate. You grew up in Saudi Arabia. You're living in the UK and you have a huge social media following of nearly 700,000 followers across all social platforms. That's insane. Out of all of those roles I mentioned, which do you enjoy the most?
ZU: Honestly, it is being a rapper, making music, writing songs, recording songs, but especially performing live, which I haven't been able to do for months, which is pretty crazy. It all started out with the music. Music is still my first love out of all of that.
JE: That's awesome. Are you sure you don't like being a fitness coach better than being a rapper?
ZU: I love it all. I don't do anything that I don't enjoy. That's one of my general life rules, in fact, with a couple of exceptions. I love it all. Music is how it started. It's my best form of expressing myself. There's no feeling like being on stage, doing a live show, and connecting with people directly in that way. There's nothing that can top that for me.
JE: Speaking of which, how does somebody who gets accepted to Oxford University to study Computer Science end up becoming a rapper? Explain to me how that process even works. Did people make fun of you? Did you take breaks between tea times? I'm being serious here. How does that work?
ZU: First of all, I tell people that if you're going to go to university, then go to university to open doors, not to close existing ones. Just because you have a degree, it doesn’t mean you can't or you shouldn't do something which you want to do, which you could have done without necessarily having that degree. You can go to Oxford and then decide to become a comedian, a chef or whatever. You can go to Harvard and study Law, and then end up becoming a singer or a dancer. Why not? There's nothing wrong with that.
JE: I love it. I want to go to Harvard and then decide to do standup comedy or launch a podcast, which I am now. It's great. The sky's the limit. What is even more incredible is that you managed to release your first rap album at the age of nineteen. How did you do that?
ZU: Honestly, I just did it. I didn't wait for anybody's permission. I googled, "How do you make an album?" At the time, one of my friends in the university named Chris had a basic recording studio in his dorm room. I used to go in there and I would record my tracks there. I would download beats off the internet and record songs.
After I'd been rapping for about 9 or 10 months, I had enough decent songs together that I could make an album. I googled to see how I could get some physical CDs made. Everything was physical CDs at that time. I did it. I started out with a run of 50, and I sold all of them in about a week. I took that money and reinvested it. I made another few hundred, sold them all, reinvested, made a thousand, and ended up selling 3,000 copies hand-to-hand.
JE: When you were nineteen?
ZU: Yeah.
JE: That is wild to me. It’s all because you googled how to release a rap album.
ZU: Anyone can google stuff, but the execution is something else. Ideas are easy to find. Information is easy to find, but a lot of people don't have the nuts to act on it and don't have the courage to go out there and do what they want to do. I just did it. I said, “I'm not going to wait for any record label. I'm not going to go on X Factor or one of these shows. I'm going to do this. I know people like my music, so let me create this and see what happens.”
Anyone can Google stuff, but the execution is something else.
Je: Don't wait for permission to do things. I've always believed in that. It's better to ask forgiveness than permission. Anybody successful in life, you got to go for it. You're over in the UK and I'm here in Manhattan, New York City. What advice would you give to young aspiring rappers growing up here, for instance, in Brooklyn, New York, about the industry and pursuing a career in music besides googling how to release a rap album? What advice would you give them about the industry?
ZU: Honestly, I don't even consider myself part of the music industry. I quite actively and intentionally ignore it. That would be part of my advice. Everything is about fans. It's all about fans. It’s about the audience. Whether you are signed or unsigned, independent or major label, or whatever it is, if you have fans and people who like you and will support what you do, then you're golden.
If you do not, it doesn't matter how many people in the industry are buzzing about you, how many magazines covers you're on, or whatever hype you're getting. If people don't like your music, don’t like you, and don’t want to support you, then all of that stuff is ultimately irrelevant. It's good for the ego. My way of doing it and what I recommend is to focus on fans. Focus on building a following. Focus on building a fan base. I'm independent, and I always have been. I don't even have a manager. I have way more fans than plenty of signed artists.
Rap Music: It doesn't matter how many people in the industry are buzzing about you, how many magazine covers you're on, or what hype you're getting. If people don't like you and your music, then all that stuff is ultimately irrelevant.
JE: Do you ever have people come up to you? I've certainly had this happen to me on the streets here in Manhattan where people would hand me their mix tape and say, “Check out my mix tape. It's free. Listen to it and see if you like it.” That's that grassroots movement of reaching out to people. Have people come up to you? Have you done that yourself like giving out your music?
ZU: I never gave them out, but I have sold over 20,000 albums on the streets of the UK, hand-to-hand.
JE: There's a lot to be said about that.
ZU: In terms of advice, I don't recommend people handing their music out like that. I recommend that they sell it in an ethical way. I don't like this thing of giving it to someone as if it's free, and then after they've taken it, telling them to pay you.
JE: There's a lot to be said for knowing your worth, knowing your value, and not giving away your talents for free. In November of 2011, you took the plunge to go all-in on your music career. That took guts. Most people wouldn't want to leave the confines of a comfortable career behind. You said something interesting during a 2019 sit-down with Ben Shapiro. You said, “I haven't starved to death yet.” I thought that was so admirable and cool. What was the driving force that inspired you to reinvent and take that scary leap of faith?
ZU: It was too much of a risk not to. People think it was a risk to do it. To me, the bigger risk was not doing so and looking back at my life in 10, 15, 20 or 30 years time and thinking, "Why didn't you go for that? You've got a God-given talent. You have the ability to change the world and inspire millions of people. You're not destined to sit here in a cubicle doing this thing that you're currently doing."
For me, it was pretty obvious. Maybe people who don't know me would've been a little bit surprised by it, but anybody who knows me from my family to my friends, nobody was surprised by that move at all. It's worth bearing in mind that I was already making music at that time. I'd already done a tour. I'd already put out three projects.
JE: It’s a passion.
ZU: It wasn't like I was leaving that and starting from ground zero. I already had something going on.
JE: You decided to go all-in on your passion. That's a beautiful thing. I'm sure you probably hear this a lot, so I'm sorry if I sound like a broken record. Your Twitter account is one of my favorites. I don't necessarily agree with everything you say. I'd probably say it’s 99.9% of what you say, but that's okay. I'm one of those super weird people that's able to befriend somebody and accept their worldviews even if they're the polar opposite of mine, which is a rare thing in this society.
You tweeted something interesting. This is a direct quote. Don't get nervous. This is not a gotcha question. You tweeted that you went from wanting everybody to like you to not caring if everybody likes you to actively not wanting certain people to like you. You also said, “Real recognizes real. The real ones know.” Explain what you mean by that.
ZU: As an individual, as a human being, and especially as a musician or a creative person, you have a natural leaning towards wanting to be liked. There's nothing wrong with that. In the world of music, art, etc., you want to appeal to as many people as possible. If that means keeping certain things in the shadows or not 100% being yourself or not 100% keeping it real, that's what the majority of people do. That is why so many celebrities, whether they're actors, musicians or whatever, come across as fake because they are being fake. They're not truly being themselves. After a while, I quickly realized, “Not everyone is going to like me. Not everyone is going to like my music, etc., and that's fine. Let me put stuff out there. Those who like it will like it.”
As I got even older and more mature and I started venturing into things outside of music, and I started sharing more of my thoughts, my opinions, and things like that, I got to a stage where my message has become more defined as time has gone on. Having a message that is defined means that not everybody is going to get it or appreciate it. That's fine because I'd rather be loved by X percent of people than be lukewarm with tons of other people.
The more that I appeal to my audience by truly being myself, not only is it liberating, but those people love me even more. That makes certain people oppose some of the things that I promote like personal responsibility, accountability, working hard, not relying on everybody else, not constantly making excuses, and having a victim mentality. There are a lot of people who are pushing the opposite message. Do I want those people to like me? No. If those people like me, that would mean that my message is off. If the people who are pushing for that stuff suddenly are like, “We love what this guy is saying,” then that would be a problem.
Rap Music: The more I appeal to my audience by just truly being myself, not only is it liberating, but those people just love me even more.
JE: Pleasing everyone is an impossible task. I learned that very early on. A fun fact about me is I love the show South Park because it offends everybody. I love their whole “If we don't offend you, we promise we will get to you later. Please be patient” approach. It’s genius because you can't please everybody. You're going to have some haters out there. You're going to have some doubters and some naysayers. Would you consider yourself to be an equal-opportunity offender?
ZU: Not exactly. There are people or ideas that I go out for more than I do others. Something like South Park shoots everybody. In my case, I do have my own beliefs, leanings, opinion and biases. I'm cognizant of those. There are certain people who are going to get the fire from Zuby more than I will. One thing I actively do is I have a policy that I do not target individuals. I think that you should be kind to people, but ruthless with bad ideas. I’m conscious of separating individual people from bad ideas. You follow me on Twitter. You'll see me attack ideas that are stupid, but you'll rarely see me attack a specific person or somebody and go at them.
JE: That speaks volumes of your character. Frankly, the world of Twitter and beyond social media could learn a lot from that and use that approach instead of targeting and going after individuals. Switching gears here, you went to school in Saudi Arabia up until the fifth grade, which I find so fascinating. You also went to boarding school at the age of eleven in the UK. You were back and forth between the two countries. What was that like? Can you give our audience your abbreviated backstory?
ZU: I was born in England. My parents are both originally from Nigeria. I'm the last of five kids. I was born in Nigeria when I was around the age of one, so I don't remember this. My dad got an opportunity to go work in Saudi Arabia. Legend has it that he came home one day and told all my siblings and my mom, “We're moving to Saudi Arabia,” and that was that.
I lived in Saudi for about nineteen years. I went to preschool and kindergarten there, and then from first grade up until fifth grade. When I was eleven, I went out to the UK for boarding school. I was back and forth between the two countries for many years. I did well in school and got into Oxford. I went there and studied Computer Science. It wasn't until after I graduated from university, it was the following year, that my family moved to the UK permanently. In terms of where I grew up and how I grew up, that's a quick summary of it.
JE: Something you also said during your Shapiro interview, which I found fascinating, was you said you liked living in Saudi Arabia. Being here in the US, when most people hear that, they'd be like, “What?” I thought that was interesting and something to hone in on. From what I know, Saudi Arabia is extremely oppressive towards women. That’s everything from their dress code to marriage, divorce, and inheritance laws.
Women were only allowed to start driving in Saudi Arabia in 2018. There is a male guardianship system in place there. Women still cannot marry or leave prison or a domestic violence shelter without the consent of their male guardians. You grew up in Saudi Arabia as a male. However, if I grew up in Saudi Arabia, I might have a different perspective than you. Where do you fall? Where do you land with that? What are your thoughts on that?
ZU: Most of the Western women I know who grew up in Saudi Arabia and those who still live there tend to love it, which may surprise some people. Saudi is an interesting country because it's one of the few countries in which people have very strong opinions despite the fact that almost nobody has been there. Few people even know anybody from there. It's interesting because there are truths in a lot of what you've said.
Saudi is a weird place. In any country or any city, people are going to have very different experiences. If someone asks you, “What was it like growing up in the USA?” It's such a huge broad question because there are people who will see certain things. Their imagination from what they're seeing from media and social media, they're like, “Oh my gosh.”
I'll tell you. Being from the UK, most British people have not been to the USA and most people from the US haven't been to America. In 2019, when I was like, “I'm going out to the States for a while,” people were like, “Are you sure you want to go there? They've got a White supremacist racist as a president. People are getting shot up in the streets. The police are killing Black people. Are you sure it's safe for you as a Black man to go to the USA?” I'm like, “I've been in the States before. It’s calm.” I've had people in the States who are like, “I'd go to London, but there’s all the knife crime. People are getting stabbed everywhere.” I'm like, “The image that's being painted in the media and on social media doesn't always represent it well.”
JE: As somebody who worked at the national level at a network for nearly a decade, I can tell you from firsthand experience that that is the mainstream media for you. I do find myself in that position a lot telling people, “It's not as bad as the news makes it seem.”
ZU: With Saudi, one thing I'm grateful for growing up somewhere like that is it does give you a much broader perspective on the different ways that societies can be. Society, culture, value systems, and even some aspects of the law are very different. If you understand that and you take the time to understand it, then it allows you to empathize much better.
Je: It is a God-fearing country. It's very religious.
ZU: I had a guy from Saudi on my podcast. He’s a Saudi native. He was saying that he went to the US and he studied in Arizona. He'd lived in Saudi up until about eighteen and then he went to the USA. His prejudices about the US were as strong as a lot of Americans might be about Saudi Arabia. What he'd seen of Americans was a very different picture.
He thought, “I'm going to go there and people are going to be very anti-Muslim. There's going to be a lot of racism. People might hate me, discriminate against me, and think this and think that.” He was sharing his experiences. He was like, “I was so shocked. I was meeting people. I was meeting Christians and Jewish people, and atheists. They embraced me.” If you went to Saudi, which you can do now. They do now have tourist visas.
JE: They're going to allow me in, Jen Eckhart?
ZU: Even if you lived there for twenty years, once you leave, before, you weren't allowed back in anyway.
JE: The problem is if I want to have a glass of wine and alcohol is illegal there.
ZU: If you want a glass of wine, then it's not the best country for you.
JE: It’s going to be a problem.
ZU: Maybe you could try a seltzer.
JE: You certainly have an interesting perspective and unique worldview. You're an individualist and a free-thinker. That's why you captivate people and can sometimes irritate people on both the right and the left. That's a good thing. You irritate people on both sides. You must be doing something right. What do you think is the number one thing wrong with politics in America?
ZU: There are too many liars. It's the biggest problem in the West in general. There are too many liars, too much cowardice, and too many lies. There are too many webs of deceit and pillars of lies in everything. We're living in a society where often people are incentivized to lie, and people are punished for being truthful and honest. Whenever that happens in a society or in a culture, you're in a dangerous position.
The biggest problem in the West today is there are too many liars, too much cowardice, and too many lies.
Politicians and certain agents in the media are extremely guilty of that, even everyday people. A lot of the power of my message and the way I've been able to grow online and build my audience is because I'm honest. I tell the truth whether or not people agree or disagree, or want to debate. That's fine. I've never said this is a dictatorship and everything must go by Zuby's law.
JE: I don't know. I feel like if you were in charge of politics, we'd have a more peaceful country, TBH, but that's just my opinion. I couldn't agree with you more on that. Politicians and lying go in lockstep with each other. Everyone lies. It's a big problem. In years past, Michael Jordan was quoted in the ESPN documentary. I don't know if you watched it. It’s called The Last Dance.
He was saying, “Republicans buy sneakers too,” after refusing to endorse an African-American democrat who was running against an incumbent Republican at the time in 1990. When I watched that scene, it felt like he didn't want to get political with his platform because he didn't want to alienate certain people from his brand. Do you think it would be a less polarizing society if more celebs and public figures followed suit?
ZU: I have mixed feelings about this. I also wouldn't want to be hypocritical because I am a public figure to a degree. I'm pretty open about my political beliefs, religious beliefs, social beliefs, etc. There should be a separation between individuals and brands. I'm not a big fan of companies like big organizations and corporations, etc. being very strongly biased in one way or the other politically. Unless it is a political organization, then I'm not a fan of that. I don't like the whole woke capitalism thing.
JE: I also can't stand when newspapers endorse presidential candidates. As a journalist, I've never understood that. As a journalist, you're supposed to be fair and balanced. You're not supposed to take sides or have an opinion. I understand there are op-ed journalists, but what are newspapers doing? That never made sense to me.
ZU: I'm with you on that one. With individuals, that's one thing. Michael Jordan is an individual, but then there's also the Jordan brand, which is linked with Nike. From what he said about that, I'm on board with that. Why would he want his brand to only appeal to let's say half the country when he could appeal to 100%? A shoe is a shoe. Those are not liberal shoes, conservative shoes, or libertarian shoes. They're just shoes. I don't need my ice cream to tell me what my political opinions should be, albeit Ben & Jerry’s. You don't need Gillette razors telling you what to think about transgenderism and all that stuff. That's nonsensical. Also, they shoot themselves in the foot when they do that.
JE: From my vantage point, I am curious. What is it like over in the UK? Do celebs and famous athletes over there sound off on politics? Do they get involved?
ZU: Yeah. It's no different from the USA in that regard.
JE: That is interesting. This is the million-dollar question that I've been leading up to. I'm very excited about this. I'm not sure if you've already been asked about this. If you have, you're going to get asked again. As somebody who lives in the UK, I am dying to know your views on the royal family. Are you team Harry and Meghan or are you team royal family here? I need to know this. The people want answers.
ZU: I don't care. Prince Harry married the wrong woman. I said that before they even got married and I got shellacked for it. Years later, we’ll see what I was getting at there. He made an error on that one, but that's his business.
JE: That's okay. A lot of my friends are in line with your thinking and feel that he has been manipulated to a degree. They think he is in an unfair situation in that he could sound off on the press here in the US whenever he feels like it whereas, in the royal family, there are a lot more restrictions. I agree with you. I don't have a dog in this fight. I say we release the corgis and do this Hunger Games style because I'm tired of hearing about it.
ZU: I don't care.
JE: Can we all get along? I don't get it.
ZU: I'm not into celebrity stuff in general. The royal family stuff falls into that for me. I don't care. I'm like, “Do I know these people? Do they know me? No? That’s cool. I don't care.”
JE: That's interesting you say that because I was going to ask you as a rapper what your thoughts were on somebody like Kanye West coming out in support of President Trump. You then have somebody like LeBron James and other athletes voicing their opinions on various political topics. Are you against that? Do you think they should stick to their craft?
ZU: I don't think they should. I'm not in the shut up and dribble camp.
JE: That is a terrible camp to be in. If you're in that camp.
ZU: I don't apply different rules to celebrities. Do your best to be informed. That's what it is. If you are going to voice an opinion, at least have it come from something rather than, “This is what my friends are saying,” or, “This is what I'm supposed to say because I'm in the music industry.” At least if you're going to talk politics, social issues, or whatever it is, be informed and be humble about it.
If you're going to talk about politics or social issues, just be informed and be humble about it.
JE: As rapper Kendrick Lamar says, “Shut up, be humble.”
ZU: Sit down, be humble.
JE: It’s sit down, be humble. It’s the same thing. Speaking of rap, I love rap. I'm going to say it. I thought it was so funny. Ben Shapiro was like, “I play the violin and I don't like rap.” I'm like, “Okay, dude.” To all my people out there, Zuby has this awesome song. It's called OK Dude. I love hip-hop. I love Kendrick Lamar and Kanye West. They're two of my favorites. I love Nicki Minaj. Fergie doesn't get a lot of notoriety. She can spit out some rhymes. They are two of my favorite female hip-hop artists. I want to play a sample of your hit song, OK Dude, if that's okay with you.
ZU: Go ahead.
“Zubi is a musician. He's a rapper from the UK who has been on the podcast. The dude doesn't even swear. Someone said, ‘I bet I sleep with more women than you do,’ to which he writes, ‘Okay, dude.’ They decided by him saying, ‘Okay, dude,’ that is grounds for being banned from Twitter. You don't like my style? Okay, dude. You don't like my lyrics? Okay, dude. You don't like my politics? Okay, dude. Do you even know what knowledge is? Okay, dude. They want to mention me? Okay, dude. They want a sense of me? Okay, dude. Tiger blood and dragon energy, I control my legacy. I got friends and enemies.”
JE: That is so good. I have to know though. Tiger blood was an interesting word choice there. Are you giving a nod to actor Charlie Sheen when he famously was like, “I have tiger blood in my veins?" I need to know.
ZU: It was a Charlie Sheen nod and a Donald Trump/Kanye West nod.
JE: Has Charlie Sheen listened to this song? You should send it to him.
ZU: I doubt it.
JE: If he's tuning in to this show, maybe he'll want to come on and have a rebuttal. Maybe he can add a line or two. I thought that was awesome. Okay, dude is your catchphrase, is it not?
ZU: Inadvertently, yeah.
JE: If it is, it's a great one. It's a great song. It has a great beat. You’re a great rapper. I want to know what's the true meaning and the overall message of this song. Why do you feel it's so important?
ZU: Joe Rogan in the intro explained what happened. I got de-platformed from Twitter for several days because I said those words, “Okay dude,” to an individual, which is clearly a violation or hate speech. Okay, dude to me means, “Yeah, whatever.”
JE: I say it on a daily basis, as a female no less. I’m like, “Okay, dude.”
ZU: It’s gender-neutral. It’s like, “Cool story, bro.” That was the first song that I made since I went viral with the deadlift and stuff went crazy for me, and I did my USA trip, etc. Between my last album, Perseverance, coming out at the beginning of 2019, and then that song coming out, so much had happened. I wanted to make a song addressing a lot of the different things that I talk about on social media, address some of my critics and haters, and also share some of my thoughts. What I love about rap and hip hop, in general, is you can say a lot in a couple of lines. There are layers to everything.
Rap Music: With rap and hip hop in general, you can say a lot in just a couple of lines. There are layers to everything.
JE: There's power in that. There's a way to tune out and send a message to the doubters, haters, and naysayers, there's a lot of power in that.
ZU: That's the chorus. That's why it's like, “You don't like my style? You don't like my lyrics? You don't like my podcast?” It's like, “That’s fine.”
JE: I love it. It's great. I’m bringing up one last tweet. I have to because it is so money. It's you saying, “How Twitter works: Me: ‘I prefer apples to pears…’ Random person: ‘What you're saying is that you hate oranges? You also failed to mention pineapples, mangoes, strawberries, and marginalized fruits of citrus. Educate yourself.’" It was such a perfectly hilarious analogy for where we are as a society now. I'm afraid I'm going to get canceled for saying during an on-air appearance that I like Nickelback. Some people might say, “You deserve to get canceled for saying that.” I unapologetically will say I love Nickelback. All jokes aside, do you think we will ever get back to a place in society where we can freely express ourselves without fear of being canceled?
ZU: It comes down to the people. Like a lot of things, it comes down to people. The reason why we are even in this situation is because of what I mentioned earlier. It is because of deceit and cowardice. The majority of people are on board like the number of people who are in favor of mass censorship.
JE: Real recognizes real. The real ones know. The real ones get it.
ZU: What's happened is there's a difference between a silent majority and a silenced majority. We may have more of the latter. That makes things a lot worse because when people are afraid to even speak out about anything or voice any opinion for fear of so-called cancellation or so-called mobs, then it gets worse. The Overton window shrinks even more. Their grip gets a little bit tighter. Things get more controlled. You have to push back against it.
There's a difference between a silent majority and a silenced majority.
JE: We're all about reinventing oneself on this show. You are the author of Strong Advice: Zuby’s Guide to Fitness for Everybody. What advice would you give to someone who hasn't worked out and wants to get a fresh start at fitness?
ZU: The first thing I would say is to understand your why. Ask yourself why multiple times and get to the root of why you want to do it. Whether you're trying to build muscle, lose weight, burn fat, or whatever it is, understand why you're doing it. Is it because you want to look more attractive to a potential partner? Is it because you want to feel more confident and you're not confident?
JE: That's interesting. You were on the record saying in an interview, “You have to give yourself a reason to be body positive, not just because you're a human and you breathe air.” I thought that was an interesting take. As a woman, I'm a very body-positive person. I didn't always use to be that way because like anyone, I'm human. I have insecurities and I've suffered unimaginable trauma. It's a beautiful thing to find your why and to learn to love yourself and your body in a world that's constantly telling you not to. They’re like, “You're not thin enough. Don't eat this, eat that. Wear this. You can achieve this look, but by only spending X amount of dollars.” What's your reason to be body positive?
ZU: The term body positive is a little bit triggering to me.
JE: What would you prefer me to say?
ZU: I don’t know, jacked.
JE: What's your reason to be jacked?
ZU: There are no downsides. It makes you live longer and stronger. You’re better at surviving life. It makes you harder to kill. It helps you to protect yourself and other people. There’s more resistance against all sorts of diseases and illnesses. As a man, maybe the motives might be slightly different from a woman. There's going to be a lot of overlap. It's one of the few things in the world where it's pretty much all upside.
I'm also obsessed with the idea of fulfilling my potential physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. With relationships and everything, I want to maximize myself because by maximizing myself or someone else maximizing themselves, they can help other people to do the same. If you are not healthy and in shape, then that affects you directly. It does also have a wider impact and wider implications. Everyone should seek to maximize themselves. You only got one body.
By maximizing yourself, you can help other people to do the same.
JE: Your body is your temple. You got to take care of it.
ZU: People will take care of material items better than they treat their own bodies, which is insane. If you mess up your shoes, you can go buy another pair. If you crash your car, hopefully, you're safe, but you can buy another car. If you destroy your body, you’re toast.
JE: Your health is your wealth. Your body is your temple. Take care of it. You follow the 80/20 rule, if I'm not mistaken. For those who don't know what that is, can you explain what that process is and what your diet is like?
ZU: In terms of diet, what that means is that for 80% of my diet, I try to have nutritious whole healthy foods, and then the other 20%, I'm more flexible with.
JE: During that 20%, do you go all-in? Is it pizza, mac and cheese, and bagel bites to the face? I'm very curious. I want to know what the 20% is. What do you eat?
ZU: It means that I'm not overly dogmatic. There are a lot of people, especially in the bodybuilding and powerlifting worlds, etc. where they're so restrictive all the time. Number one, it can lead to genuine eating disorders. For a diet to be a good diet, it has to be sustainable. For example, I ate plain chicken breast, broccoli, and brown rice, and then I can do that for a few days, but is that something I can maintain or would want to maintain for weeks, months or years on end? No. Fortunately, with me, I have a high caloric requirement, so 20% is a decent amount for me. The more energy you burn, the more you can get away with eating stuff that's not great all the time. That's my philosophy around that. I practice what I call flexible dieting.
A good diet has to be sustainable.
JE: It’s building out something realistic that's sustainable that you can live with and enjoy. I don't believe in the starve-yourself approach.
ZU: It’s unnecessary.
JE: If you want to have something, have it in moderation. I need to know though. What is your go-to junk food?
ZU: Ice cream. That’s easy.
JE: You answered that quickly.
ZU: It’s my favorite food too, so it's easy.
JE: That's why you have to be jacked and workout as much as you do. You got to earn it.
ZU: I get jacked so I can eat more ice cream.
JE: To wrap up here, I want to know what is the most influential piece of advice you've received and who was it from?
ZU: What jumps at me immediately is not advice. It's a statement. I remember when I was growing up, my parents would always tell me that life is not fair. That always stuck with me. It's an important thing to be cognizant of. We live in a time where a lot of people have this mindset where they're consistently complaining about virtually everything and everything that may seem to appear unfair. Having that drilled into my head as a child when I used to complain about things and say, “That’s not fair,” my parents would say, “Life is not fair.”
JE: The world doesn't owe you anything.
ZU: There you go. It doesn't mean horrible things should happen, but it's recognizing the fact that life is not fair. We're all born equal, but we're born different in very different circumstances. People are going to face different hardships and have different advantages, disadvantages, and so on and so forth. Someone could sit there and complain eternally that all of that is not fair, but it's better to recognize that.
In fact, it is taking the advantages and the privileges that you have, and using them to your benefit and to benefit other people. Don't sit there and self-flagellate about whatever privileges and advantages you may have, which is where society seems to be in the West. Don't do that. Take that and use those advantages. Use those gifts you've been given and maximize things for yourself and other people. That's what I try to practice.
Rap Music: It's better to just recognize that and take the advantages and privileges you have and use them to your benefit and for the benefit of other people.
JE: There is real injustice in society. That goes without saying. That's an inspiring message. When I hear you say, “Don't live in this perpetual state of victimhood,” what I'm hearing you say is, “Make lemonade out of lemons.” Use your God-given talents. Use what you have to reinvent and level up and use it in a positive and empowering way. That's beautiful.
ZU: Fill up your jug and then pour water out for other people.
JE: You can't pour from an empty cup. That's another thing. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It was such an honor to have you on, rap with you, listen to your music, and talk to you about everything from fitness to Saudi Arabia and beyond. I appreciate you taking the time. To our audience out there, be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to this show that's available wherever you tune in to shows. Zuby, thanks again for coming on. I appreciate it.
ZU: You are most welcome. It has been great to talk.
JE: Thanks for tuning in.